by George W. Penington  -  Editor

DECEMBER 24, 2003

MERRY HOLIDAYS

ISSUE  #47 - PAGE 2      <<<Back to Page one>>>

1)  WELCOME TO THE HUNLEY NEWSLETTER >
2)  PHOTOGRAPHY
3) 
George S. Cook  PHOTOGRAPHY >
4) 
Blueprints' Discovery Sparks Search For Historic Sub>
5)  NORTH CHARLESTON TO GET THE HUNLEY MUSEUM
6)  FROM THE GUEST BOOK>
7)  E-MAIL >
8) OUR PURPOSE AND GOALS


 

4)  Blueprints' Discovery Sparks Search For Historic Sub
 

 ----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: [CSS H L HUNLEY] Article on the Alligator

Washington Post
December 15, 2003  Pg. B1

Blueprints' Discovery Sparks Search For Historic Sub

By Michael E. Ruane, Washington Post Staff Writer

Catherine G. Marzin, a researcher with the federal government's
National Marine Sanctuary Program, didn't know what awaited her that
morning in the French naval archives outside Paris.

She was on the trail of one Brutus De Villeroi, a 19th-century French
inventor who in 1861 designed the U.S. Navy's first submarine. The
archives didn't have a biographical file on him. But the agency did
have a box of his papers.

When Marzin, 34, opened the box in May and extracted file 3084, she
was stunned. Inside were hand-drawn antique sketches of a vessel
shaped like a fountain pen. It had a series of tiny portholes, a
diver's chamber and strange, folding oars sticking out of its
sides. "PLANS du Bateau Sous-Marine," the drawings said: Blueprints
of the Submarine Ship.

"Bingo!" Marzin said to herself.

Today, the Navy and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration
, which oversees the sanctuary program, will formally
announce the government's discovery of the plans for the historic USS
Alligator
and renew calls for a search for the forgotten vessel,
which sank in a storm off Cape Hatteras, N.C., in 1863.



"It's like finding a photograph of a person you're doing historical
research on, but you have no idea what they look like," said Jim
Christley, a veteran of the Navy's submarine service and a submarine
historian who has been researching the Alligator for years.

"It adds a lot of information that you didn't have before, stuff that
you were only guessing about," Christley, 58, of Lisbon, Conn., said
in a telephone interview last week.

"It answers questions for people who want to know hard facts: What
does it look like? You can say: Here's what we think it looks like.
This is what the designer intended."

Marzin's "finding those blueprints was an absolute jewel in the
crown,
" he said. "And the luck that she had in being able to do that
is really incredible."

Little is known about the weird green boat called the Alligator,
despite its status as the progenitor of the Navy's submarine service,
said Daniel Basta, director of the Silver Spring-based Office of
Marine Sanctuaries.

It never engaged in combat, although it was the first Navy sub to be
deployed to a combat zone.
And it was at first powered,
unglamorously, by oars.

Its story has been eclipsed by that of the better known Confederate
Civil War submarine, H.L. Hunley, which sank a Union warship in 1864
but was lost in the process. The Hunley was raised from the ocean off
Charleston, S.C., in 2000 with the remains of its crew still on board.

Nor is much known about the Alligator's inventor, De Villeroi, a
printer's son who later claimed to be a French knight and told the
U.S. Census that his occupation was "natural genius." He spent much
of his life tinkering with submarine designs, and historians believe
he might have influenced 19th-century French science fiction author
Jules Verne, who was a math student of De Villeroi's.

The 47-foot-long Alligator was constructed of rolled iron in a
shipyard in Philadelphia, where De Villeroi had immigrated, and was
launched May 1, 1862, according to Christley and Michiko Martin of
the Marine Sanctuary Program. The Navy had turned to submarine
technology to help counter Confederate technological advances in such
iron-clad warships as the CSS Virginia, known in the North as the
Merrimack.

De Villeroi had been experimenting with submersible boats in the
Delaware River, and an early sub was confiscated in 1861 by
Philadelphia police, who suspected "treasonable purposes," according
to a newspaper account at the time.

Unlike the Hunley, which had a torpedo on the end of a long spar, the Alligator used a hard-hat diver to launch attacks.

The Alligator had a lockout chamber that a diver, tethered to an air
line, could use to leave the boat, Christley said. Carrying an
explosive charge connected to the boat with electrical wires, the
diver swam to the enemy vessel, attached the charge to the vessel's
hull and returned to the sub. The charge would then be detonated by
electricity.

It was closer to modern Navy special operations than what later
evolved into submarine warfare. The Alligator was not a "blue water"
boat, Christley said, and was designed to operate in rivers and
harbors.

In some ways, the sub was worthy of Verne, whose fictional Victorian
boat, the Nautilus, figured in his 1870 novel, "20,000 Leagues Under
the Sea."

The Alligator had a crew of 20, along with a rudimentary air
purification system to scrub out carbon dioxide. It probably had a
crude air compressor to serve the diver, Christley said.

Its initial design was equipped with specialized underwater oars,
eight to 10 on each side, which poked through the hull. They were
supposed to give the boat maneuverability.

Oars made for slow speed, though, and they later were replaced with a
single screw propeller in the stern.

In spring 1862, the Alligator was deployed to the Hampton Roads area
of Virginia to help clear enemy river obstructions and blow up an
important railroad bridge. But the rivers were too shallow, and Navy
officials feared the Alligator might be captured by the rebels.

It was moved to the Washington Navy Yard for alterations and more
testing. President Abraham Lincoln, who was fascinated with
technology, is believed to have watched some of the testing,
Christley said.

In the spring of 1863, the Alligator got a new assignment: It was to deploy to the coast of South Carolina for operations against Charleston. But on the evening of April 2, 1863, the boat was lost in a storm off  Cape Hatteras as it was being towed south by an escort ship. After that "It was basically forgotten by history."

While periodic scholarship on the Alligator has been conducted over the past century, new attention has come from Rear Adm. Jay Cohen, head of the Office of Naval Research. Cohen told Basta about the sub when both were involved in the successful South Pacific search last year for President John F. Kennedy's sunken torpedo boat, PT-109.

The Navy and NOAA began new research, which led to Marzin's trip to the French archives.

Basta, 56, said he believes the blueprints could help a search for the lost submarine, which might lie in 10,000 feet of water just off the continental shelf.

The plans could provide clues to how fast the boat sank, Basta said, which could help point to where it sank.

It would be "an extraordinarily difficult thing to find," Basta said."It is a huge challenge to our science. But I believe if we can find the 109, we can find the Alligator."



5) NORTH CHARLESTON TO GET THE HUNLEY MUSEUM

N. Charleston leads charge for Hunley

City favorite for museum, McConnell says

BY SCHUYLER KROPF
Of The Post and Courier Staff

North Charleston has emerged as the favorite to win the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley museum, and a decision could come within the next 60 days.

State Sen. Glenn McConnell said Friday that North Charleston's huge lead in its commitment of cash and expertise is a decided edge, adding he would be "hard-pressed" to tell the state Legislature in January the Hunley Commission was turning down a funding offer that may run as high as $12 million-$13 million.

"I don't see how we can go back to the General Assembly and justify anything but North Charleston," said McConnell, R-Charleston.

The comments are a switch from McConnell's earlier statements that Patriot's Point in Mount Pleasant may be the best site, given the fact it is already a state-run maritime museum and established tourist destination.

But changes in financial commitments and in site offerings from Mount Pleasant and Charleston have nearly taken them both out of contention, he said.

After Mount Pleasant pulled back on its earlier offer of accommodations-tax money, the Mount Pleasant/Patriot's Point bid consists of land at the museum site plus $1 million in Patriot's Point money, said Chris Sullivan of the Hunley Commission.

The city of Charleston's offer, meanwhile, moves the sub from the city's waterfront to a proposed Hunley wing at the current Charleston Museum.

McConnell said neither plan is acceptable.

"With no waterfront property downtown, (Charleston) is out," McConnell said. "I couldn't vote for that." In connection to North Charleston's package he said, "I couldn't see leaving $12 million on the table to go to Mount Pleasant."

"Based on what I know at this point, I'd have to say North Charleston is definitely in the lead," he added.

Ray Anderson, special assistant to North Charleston Mayor Keith Summey, said the Hunley would be better off going to North Charleston because the administration has shown a dedicated commitment to the displaying the sub, even a willingness to increase its bid by $2 million from the sale of land at the old Navy shipyard.

"We think it is the best," he said.

Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said the city's offering was still the best for the Hunley both historically and in terms of attracting tourists and foot traffic. More people "by far" would see it downtown than they would in another site, Riley said Friday, adding he has pledged to accept the fund-raising role for the sub.

Mount Pleasant officials could not be reached late Friday.  

According to the Hunley Commission's selection timetable, the subcommittee studying the three bid packages hopes to make its recommendation by the end of this month, Sullivan said, and the full Hunley Commission would then make a decision in January.

"All the commission members I've talked to are anxious to make a decision and get this thing moving," Sullivan said.

The search over which city will win the Hunley has gone on for several years but has faced numerous delays as commission members have altered deadlines and sought additional information and expertise from the cities and officials involved with the project. McConnell has said he envisions a museum costing about $40 million that would tell the Hunley story, plus other aspects of the Civil War at sea.

For now, the Hunley is undergoing restoration in its conservation lab in North Charleston.

Schuyler Kropf covers state and local politics. Contact him at skropf@postandcourier.com or 937-5551.

Reprinted with permission from the Post and Courier and Charleston.net

6) FROM THE GUEST BOOK


I look forward to all the readings of your news letter all the time.
Ray Moffitt <bip62>
Gray Court,, s.c USA - Thursday, December 18, 2003 at 04:59:42 (PST)


419 lome
bella 419 <bella@419.com>
419 , 419 USA - Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 22:57:50 (PST)


What a magnificent project ... BRAVO ! to all concerned . Lt George Edmund Dixon and the crew of Hunley are home at last . Best regards , John Samuels AUSTRALIA .
John Samuels <john.samuels>
GOLD COAST , QLD Australia - Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 05:54:21 (PST)


Longneckers were at every Major Civil War battle from start to finish of war. They fought on both sides. First Longenecker came over in 1722 and spawned a bunch of folk, including one of the guys (William) who built/owned (with partners) the "Hunley", from Ohio and went to Port Lavaca, TX. This Yankee is still proud!
STEPHEN LONGNECKER <SMALPANY>
WEST SENECA, NY USA - Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 16:14:32 (PST)


I am the great-great-grand-niece of Alexander Hamilton Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy. My mother was from Montgomery Alabama, born in 1926 (years after the Civil War ended), and my father was from Sykesville, Maryland (also born in 1926). As far back as I can remember, the Civil War still raged on in my family as my mother's background and life of a proud Southerner constantly raised the hackles on my Stout Northern father's neck. My mother always had that Southern Drawl, and all my life people ask me where in the South I'm from (lived in Maryland all my life). I tell them that I am a Southern Carroll Countian. Anyway, I think this is a marvelous site and since I am doing some serious genealogy research, facts from this site will assist me greatly. Thanks to all who have contributed.
Donna Wright <donna.catron>
Westminster, MD USA - Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 11:22:15 (PST)


Great site!!
Phillip R. Allen <pra240>
Donie, TX USA - Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 09:12:08 (PST)


Great site with informative info Phil
Phil <pvitiello1>
New Haven, CT USA - Friday, December 12, 2003 at 07:16:57 (PST)


GREAT SITE. MUGU DEY HEREO, WAOO GUYS HANDS OFF, NICE SITE INDEED.
Ngbada Ade <mugu@yahoo.com>
NEW YORK, ABAa USA - Thursday, December 11, 2003 at 10:06:44 (PST)


you are welcome to our site.plz give us the feed back.
YOUTH AIDS INFO "Community Youth HIV/AIDS Intervention Network" <youthaidsinfo@yahoo.com>
kathmandu, nepal - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 at 10:20:02 (PST)


Visited SC and saw the Hunley on Saturday 12/6/03. What a wonderful and moving exhibit! And we got to see the Hunley up out of the tank, which was really fortunate. Hope to be relocated from the (truly) frozen north to Charleston in time for the April events.
D Brandt <chasfroggie>
Hingham, MA USA - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 at 10:49:02 (PST)



joelouis <JOELOUIS26>
USA - Saturday, December 06, 2003 at 22:15:51 (PST)


thanks
Mike Arthur <ljapublic@t>
Sullivans Is, sc USA - Saturday, December 06, 2003 at 15:01:09 (PST)


----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
Andrew <---------------->
Conifer , Co USA - Saturday, December 06, 2003 at 12:25:06 (PST)

Its a good website for me to go to, to do a paper.
erica <cledus6152>
aiken, sc USA - Friday, December 05, 2003 at 13:44:29 (PST)


It's really nice to be able to have a place to go on the internet to find such interesting facts in history.
Faith <goldilox19>
Pawleys Is., SC USA - Friday, December 05, 2003 at 11:42:00 (PST)


Nice to see that you take care of historical artefacts.Good luck.
Per Stenfeldt <Per.Stenfeldt>
Stockholm, Sweden - Wednesday, December 03, 2003 at 00:14:02 (PST)


I am a bonafide history buff, and I am very much pleased to see a part of Naval history preserved for all to see and appreciate! Especially since my military service was in the U.S.Navy & Coast Guard
Kenneth Uffelman <kuffelman>
Fresno, Ca USA - Monday, December 01, 2003 at 05:55:00 (PST)

 


7)  E-MAIL >

----- Original Message -----

From:  WILLIAM E PORTER

To:      george@thehunley.com

Cc:      ED PORTER

Sent:   Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:23 AM

Subject:           Hypothermia

Dear George,

 

I have read about the water being just a little above freezing and the ocean being rough as the evening progressed, the night of the sinking.  It just looks like it would be extremely cold inside that iron tube called the Hunley.  Considering that the sailors could have worked up a sweat cranking the Hunley. Then the sinking of the Housatonic and the concussion of the blast could have stunned the sailors.  As the sailors were sitting at their posts in those very tight quarters. Couldn’t they start to pass out from hypothermia?  The cold sweat and the bone chilling cold inside that iron tube had to take it’s toil on the crew.  The rough waters tossing them about and pushing them farther out to sea.  I think this information should be added into the equation of what happened to the Hunley.  Remember how fast the Titanic survivors died in the water from the extreme cold.  Well our sailors might not have been wet, but they could have perished from hypothermia in those cold tight quarters just as quickly.  They just drift off quietly into that everlasting sleep. These are my thoughts on the subject, what do you think?

Sincerely,

Ed Porter

----- Original Message -----

From:  Susan M Barton

To:      george@thehunley.com

Sent:   Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:13 PM

Subject:           Thank you

 

My sister and I had the opportunity to visit the Hunley last April.  What an amazing experience!  I just wanted to thank you for the newsletters.

Susan M. Barton

Thank you so much...Encouraging words are always great.  .George

----- Original Message -----

From:  Nabers

To:      George W. Penington

Sent:   Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:26 PM

Subject:           Re: school project

 

Mr. Penington,

Here I am again.  I am finishing up my report, due Tuesday.

I have read countless facts and theories on the Hunley.  It has been interesting and fun.

Here is the question,  Do you know how many men died (all together) in the Hunley?  I have 3 different answers in my notes 22, 32, and 38????  How many times did she sink?  When she was raised in 2000, was that the 4th. time?

Weigh about 7.5 tons

4 feet 3 inches wide

39.5 feet long,

speed 4 knots (with the tide)

is this correct?

Thank you for all your help.

I think my report is very good.  I will let you know what my history teacher thinks.

 

Thanks again,

Robbie

After several dives about the harbor on 29 August 1893, the submarine moored by lines fastened to steamer ETIWAN at the dock at Fort Johnson. The steamer unexpectedly moved away from the dock, drawing H. L. HUNLEY on her side and she filled and went down. Five seamen of the CSS CHICORA were officially reported to have drowned but Lieutenant Payne and two others escaped. The submarine was raised, and on 21 September 1863, turned over to Horace L. Hunley for fitting out and manning. He brought a crew from Mobile which had previous experience in handling the submarine and was to be headed by Lt. G. E. Dixon, 21st Alabama Volunteers, CSA.

In the absence of Lieutenant Dixon, 15 October 1863, Hunley took charge of the submarine for practice dives under the Receiving Ship INDIAN CHIEF. After several successful dives, the submarine again went under INDIAN CHIEF but air bubbles traced the downward course of the submarine which failed to surface. Hunley and his entire crew of seven lost their lives as the water was nine fathoms deep and nothing could immediately be done to aid them.

The third and final sinking was February 17, 1864  with entire crew of 8 lost.  That makes the total 21 men lost.

So she was raised three times.

Dimensions:  39’ 5” from upper tip of bow to the furthest aft point of the hull.  This does not include the propeller cover (shroud) and the rudder which would add another 4’ to 5 ‘.also does not include the upper or lower spar.

The widest point or belly in the center of the sub was 3.5 feet - width.  The height (tall) was 4’ 3”.  The hatches were a little less that 24” long and 15” wide (oval shaped)  The crew compartment from wall of forward and aft ballast tanks was 16’. from page 167, “Raising the Hunley: the remarkable history and recovery of the lost Confederate submarine “ / Brian Hicks and Schuyler Kropt. - 1st edition.  April 2002

Don’t forget that Lt. Dixon steered using a lever like a joystick, also the latest newsletter is about the latest artifacts found.

Good luck on your paper - send me a copy and would you like me to publish some of it in the newsletter....send me permission.  George

----- Original Message -----

From:  Ben Franks

To:      mistergwp@thehunley.com

Sent:   Friday, December 05, 2003 8:08 PM

Subject:           Fraternal Order

 

My inquiry on these brave men is if they where affiliated with any fraternal order such as Masons, etc.

I am a 32 degree Mason and I’m writing articles in my Scottish Rite Bulletin on the Hunley. 

I know that many civil war soldiers where Masons on both sides. I am a charter member of the Hunley.

Thank for your time,

Ben R. Franks

32 degree KCCH

California

BEN...THIS IS THE LAST NEWS THAT WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE MASON' CONNECTION.  FOTH IS VERY TIGHT ABOUT RELEASING INFORMATION IN A TIMELY MANNER.

Sept. 9, 2002--One of the smallest pieces of metal recovered from the
Confederate submarine H. L. Hunley may hold the clue to the life of
her commander, Army Lt. George Dixon.

It's a watch fob, a little piece on the opposite end of a pocket
watch chain, used to secure the chain, and thereby the watch, to the
owner's clothing. The one on Dixon's watch chain appears to be a
Masonic symbol, including the name of a lodge.

Hunley researchers won't yet say which chapter it is in order to give
them a chance to review the records, said state Sen. Glenn McConnell,
chairman of the South Carolina Hunley Commission.

"The fob is going to settle once and for all where George Dixon is
from," said state Sen. Glenn McConnell, chairman of the South
Carolina Hunley Commission.

"Some have said he is from Kentucky. Some have said he is from
different places, and somebody has even mentioned he might be from
Ohio," McConnell told the Charleston Post & Courier.


Researchers have long believed Lt. George Dixon was a Mason, although
what this is based on has never been made clear. McConnell said the
fob has markings indicating an exact chapter of the fraternal
organization.

"That chapter has been in continuous existence. Those records should
be there," he said.

 

 

Subject: [CSS H L HUNLEY] FOTH

 

 

Why would the FOTH want to keep information out of the public domain
and especially penalize anyone who would want to build a scale model
of one of the most interesting and important items in military
history? I never saw the Friends of the Alamo try and hide the
blueprints of the Alamo.

Many of you may not have seen the article on Warren Lasch and
his "past" but you may want to read up on him and his ethics. You can
find a long and detailed article well researched by the Charleston
Newspaper.

Combined with his sidekick in crime Sancho err Senator McConnell, I
would not be surprised to see some scandal involving all associated
with the Hunley. McConnell clearly acts and thus must believe the
Hunley belongs to him. It is time the people take back their history
and run these bums out on a rail.

Old Steam Navy
John Harloe
Dallas, Texas

Dear Mr. Penington,

 
My great-great-uncle, Alexander Hamilton Stephens, was the Vice President of the Confederacy. I had vaguely heard of the Hunley in my growing up years, and remember seeing parts of a movie.
 
Just today, my father said something about how fascinated he was about the sub and the events surrounding its sinking (his ancestry is from the Union, and my mother's is from the South - she was related to the Stephens clan as HER mother's maiden name reflects). In my years growing up, I remember many "issues" raised about the North and the South and their conflicts. It dawned on me that the war is still very much imbedded in today's society, and the bitter hatred still carries on! This is so fascinating to ME because the war ended in, what, 1865?
 
I am still involved in a lot of genealogy research back to my great-great-uncle Alex. Now that I've read a little on the sub and its history, I am enthralled and will continue to come back to the web site(s) to see what the latest events are. I may even take a trip in April 2004 to see the ceremony scheduled in Charleston.
 
Thank you for all the research and publication's posted for people like me who had no idea that the Hunley even existed. I have ordered the movie and will be printing out some of the newsletters as part of the Civil War history for my research.
 
Thank you again.
 
Donna Wright (daughter of Alma Johnson (Wright), daughter of Nona Stephens (Johnson), niece of Alex.

Donna (Catron) Wright
Executive Administrative Assistant
Contracts Services Group
NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORPORATION
MS B495

410-765-7862, fax 410-981-4941
donna.catron@ngc.com

 

 




 

OUR PURPOSE AND GOALS

Is to provide specialized information to those who are interested in the recovery efforts and history of the Confederate Submarine H L Hunley. It is available free to anyone who might benefit from the information it contains, for example, students and history buffs. Our mailing list will always be kept private and will never be sold.

Feel free to forward this newsletter to any friends or associates              

Don't forget to check out our other newsletters online.
Hit Counter

*

Comments and questions may be directed to webmaster: mistergwp
Please sign guest book and thanks for visiting.