4) PLANS FOR ANOTHER SECRET SUBMARINE INTERCEPTED BY THE YANKEES  >WAS IT THE TRITON SUBMARINES??

6)  E-MAIL >

 

Sir,
 While scanning the very interesting Hunley website, I came across the letter sent by Batemen to you.  Batemen objects to the U.S. Flag being flown at the scheduled interment of the last Hunley crew because he believes it has no place.  He claims to be a patriot.  He should be reminded that all participants of the civil war are, were and will forever be AMERICANS first and foremost, and to exclude the U.S. flag would be a slap in the face to all veterans, North and South.  Batemen's attitude is inaccurate, untimely, UN-AMERICAN, and disrespectful.  He also needs to be reminded of one of the last of President Lincoln's speeches: "with malice toward none, with charity for all," in which he intones the nation to: "bind up our wounds." Bateman's attitude perpetuates the great Southern myth that malice against the United States still exists, the Confederacy is still viable, and that hatred against the U.S. is still tolerated, and it flies in the face of the wishes and orders of not only Lincoln, but the leaders of the Confederacy also.  I too have ancestors from the civil war, a great grandfather, Major James Grant CSA, whose first cousin was LtGen Ulysses S. Grant, USA, my fourth cousin and a direct descendant.  As a serving member of the USMC, and loyal American, I find Bateman's letter  intolerable in the extreme. I would have written to Mr. Batemen personally, except for the fact he did not include an accurate e mail address, hence this letter to you. Thanks for listening. 

LtCol Oliver M. Grant USMC

We must remember that the vast majority of Confederate veterans and sympathizers swore loyalty to the Federal Government in 1865.  Recall that Gen. R.E. Lee criticized any attempt to emigrate to other countries, namely French-occupied Mexico and Brazil.  The real duty, he asserted, was to remain, rebuild and reconcile.  (For the record,  of the small minority that did emigrate, most returned to America.)

To fly the US colors and to play the national anthem means that the Federal Government, to some small degree, is willing to acknowledge their sacrifice as deserving the honors of war.  Their efforts are not to be compared with those of today's crackpots - they were men following their conscience, endeavoring to bring about a decisive end of hostilities in their favor.

The flag and anthem can also serve to reconcile the two views on this war.  Debate has been enlarged over the past 15 years on how complex were the factors that led to war, which is very good for us as citizens.  But also for our history.  I want people north of the
Mason-Dixon to accept the Hunley crew as Americans as much as for them to understand that the South had legitimate reasons.

maclilus
***********

Dear George;

Forgive me for asking, but you may be able to help me. I'm trying to join Friends of the Hunley but get no response when I  complete the International Membership option on their website, no reply to emails and no reply to phone messages - the phone is always on voicemail.
Thought you might know something about them.
I am a member of the American Civil War Round Table in the UK and am coming to Charleston with a friend for the funeral of the Hunley crew in April.
Best wishes,
Jeremy Edwards
> >-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Edwards"
To: "George W. Penington" <george@thehunley.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Friends of the Hunley


Hello George,
Many thanks for your kind reply to my email (see below). Sorry for
taking a while to get back to you.
I've emailed the admin address you gave me and hopefully something will come of it, otherwise I'll take up your suggestion and try to contact Senator McConnell. It's nice to know that a person of his eminence is so approachable. It would be good to meet him one day if that were possible.
I'm not sure I understand where your (excellent) website sits in the scheme of things with the Friends of the Hunley. Are you associated with the Hunley Club? Is that something I should join? I've also seen hints that the Friends of the Hunley has been struggling a bit financially. If  it's not too much trouble could you enlighten me, please? Meantime, the newsletters are very informative.
As far as an article is concerned, I would be delighted to contribute something - just let me have some guidelines on what you would like.
Although I have written a couple of short pieces for our magazine
"Crossfire" I could suggest a couple of people who might be better
suited. You see, it's the 50th anniversary of our Round Table and we now have over 250 members - perhaps I might ask our President or the editor of Crossfire to contribute. You may like to visit our website:
 www.americancivilwar.org.uk  which I hope you will find interesting.
I know we played a modest part in helping you guys during the war - I just wish we had done more and actually gone for full diplomatic
recognition. I do have a view about the naval strategy of the
Confederacy - I believe if it had been different you might just have won.
 Sadly, Jeff Davis was an army man and didn't really know much about naval affairs. Had he done so I believe he would have taken up Malory's suggestion in1862 which Bulloch put forward: the East India Company was winding up it's operations as an independent power and was selling off it's navy of ten ocean going steam powered ships at a discount. Had Jeff Davis approved their purchase and had them upgraded and refurbished the blockade would never have got off the ground and the whole outcome of the war could have been very different.
I do have some modest naval connections through my ancestors: I am
descended on my paternal grandmother's side from John Pilfold, who
commanded the Ajax at the Battle of Trafalgar (he was Shelly's uncle).
If you have time (which I doubt, as you must be very busy!) perhaps we could meet when I'm over in April. I'll be staying at the John Rutledge Inn.
Let me have your thoughts on the above.
Best wishes,
Jeremy

 George W. Penington wrote:

Hello Jeremy,  Just letting you know I am getting your mail.  Just talked to Sen. McConnell's brother who is also a Friend. I am not associated with the FOTH.  I simple do what I do as a hobby and interest and as a volunteer effort. The CSS H L HUNLEY CLUB is just an online club that contains members from all over, some of which are also FOTH members, probably most, some actually work there, others are submarine people, remote control model
builders, and rocket scientist like myself.  We like to argue and debate, analyze and theorize various aspects of the Hunley adventure. I do recommend you join even though online conversations are sporadic, if someone fires up a hot topic then most of the top members join in...the others consider themselves ""lurkers".    The club keeps everyone on their toes and contributes ideas for the newsletter. I think most of them subscribe to the newsletter.
As far as the Friends of the Hunley, Inc. hurting financially, I don't think that is possible and would find that hard to believe unless money is being mishandled or misappropriated.  All organizations need operating money, but as far as I am concerned to much information is being withheld from the public and because our tax dollars and their status as a non-profit charitable organization is somewhat conflicting in that they are not held
accountable to the people (us).  A lot of us would like to know where the money goes.  They use a lot of volunteers but a select few gross major salaries while the volunteers bust their guts working there. The paid staff are often aloof and un co-operative, something you would never get from a volunteer.
  Two other things that come to mind , when FOTH got started
and in the heat of the moment, they attempted to file lawsuits against all of us that had websites containing the "HUNLEY" name claiming copyright infringement and Cyber squatting.  Well their greed got blasted out of the water as we grouped together to file counter suits.  There was a terrible uproar and they backed off.  The only other issue that comes to mind is the way the discovery of the Hunley was handled and the treatment of Dr. E. Lee Spence who was the first discoverer of The Hunley.
There are enough articles out there to know where I stand in support of Spence so no need to rehash those at this time.
 So as far as my relationship goes with the FOTH, I think it is OK.  Glenn McConnell and I go way back to 1968 when we were Fraternity Brothers in Pi Kappa Phi and served together on the Student Government where he was President of the Student body and I was President of the Sophomore Class.  I have always liked Glenn and respected him, we talk from time to time and have never lost the friendship we have had for over thirty years.  This relationship doesn't mean that we have to always agree.  So if it wasn't for politics, he would be the greatest guy on earth, second only to me.

As far as an article is concerned anything you feel is topical and
appropriate sounds good to me. Anything close to ships, subs, blockaders, or any topic you think the readers may enjoy.

Hey look forward to meeting you in April and talking to you again before then.  Stay in touch...never to busy for friends.  George W. Penington

>

 FROM A NEW WEBSITE FOR THOSE WANTING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FUNERAL PROCESSION FOR THE INTERMENT OF THE FINAL HUNLEY CREW.

The following information was taken from the website   www.hunleyfuneral.org  for UPDATED FUNERAL INFORMATION.

Registration and rules for participants in the funeral procession?
Registration Forms
Everyone participating in the funeral procession must be registered and have an original signature on the "liability" clause form. The funeral procession will be a marching one and the Army will proceed "under arms". Registration forms are available on this web site. There will be designated persons at the staging area to form the funeral procession. Uniform rules appear in this section of the web site. There will also be registration forms available at the staging area for those not previously registered.

 

COMMENT

I just remembered about the Hunley's raising and went looking for updates on it, and found y'all's website. I'm now a subscriber. I was stationed at NRMC Charleston back in '78-79, and except for the smell of the blasted papermills, loved the history and beauty of the area. Anyway, about the crew of the Hunley's dying by suffocation - since it was February and I know from experience that it does get COLD in Charleston! - has anybody taken HYPOTHERMIA into consideration as a factor of their dying as well as suffocation? The water would be cold enough to kill them, depending on how much there was of it in the sub at the time. They'd be hot and sweaty from the exertions of cranking
the screw, so it wouldn't feel bad at first, but as their core temperatures started falling, they'd feel it and would probably start grumbling about being cold. I would think it would be a race as to which got them first - hypothermia or bad air. Only God and the Crew know which one did it.

As to the argument about who found the Hunley first, I think Spence needs to get the official credit for FINDING her first, and Cussler needs to get the credit for BRINGING HER BACK into the world of man, so that the crew could finally be given a proper resting place with the honors due them.

When Spence found her, we didn't have the technology needed to bring her back up, and bless
his heart, he was wise enough to know this, and so he made absolutely no effort to do more than LOCATE her. Period. It took 25 years for us to have the technology to bring her back up intact, and that's where Clive Cussler comes into the picture. HE needs to back down from the claim of finding her first, since it's a matter of historical record that Spence found her in 1970, and that can't be disputed. It's not Spence's fault he didn't have the technological resources needed to raise her at the time. From what I understand, Spence just wants to be given due recognition of the fact that he located her first, but
that it took somebody else 25 years later to bring her up. I mean, Good God, it's not like the Hunley had GOLD aboard her!! She's a treasure because of the historical role she played in submarine
development, not because she carried a Spanish Galleon's treasure. Hunley rightly belongs to the historians and engineers who are fascinated with her design and fabrication, and to the descendants of
the people who fought and died on both sides of that nasty conflict. I love Cussler's books, but in this instance, he's in the wrong. Ramsey
Huntsville, AL USA - Monday, September 01, 2003 at 10:57:30 (PDT)